Mac's Volusia - moving from Honda boards as promised...

RebaRebel (52), pipes9601 (51), hise0001, damian (42)

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Ozaquila's ride Posted by OZaquila on 23 Jun 2007 in Members Rides Viewed 1561 times 640w X 480h 159089 bytes

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Easy solution is to sleep with the bike. Any wife worth her salt will eventually get used to it, and it keeps the chrome warm. -- Kai Nui

[Mac]

Thanks, Lance - and don't worry, I'm still riding the Volusia, even if I'm not happy with it.  Right now, I'm sitting here going over reviews of the bike and finding how many mags and reviewers thought that it was one of the LEAST vibration-prone of the mid-range cruisers of it's time.  So I'm trying to figure out if I need to pour more money into returning it to stock or just trade it in already...(but I don't know if changing the exhaust back will fix it, since it's possible that there is something else going on...thus my real issue.)

Either of which pretty much equals the same thing - wrong bike, will cost me FAR more than planned.  Major SNAFU from my end, especially when I am now already into it almost the same as I would have been with the Intruder 1400 if I had just pounced on that instead when I had the chance.

And the PC isn't an option anymore - I just can't handle mid-controls.  Has to be a cruiser....
 

[Hyosilver]

Gee, I don't know Mac, I just did a quick search and found all kinds of owners complaining about vibration in their Volusia's at highway speed. Suggestions for possible cause ranged from bad tires, tires out of round, balancing, different grips, loose spokes, etc etc etc.

It looks like it might be a bit of a crap shoot as to whether you get a shaker or not. You should stop beating yourself up about your decision though. There is no way you could have known and hindsight is always 20/20. You'll get it sorted eventually.

[ACD_Bill]

Mac, do you have a motorcycle lift? If so, go buy some sidewalk chalk. It's a cheap way to test if your tires are out of round.

Vertical: Hold the sidewalk chalk so one end touches the ground and the other end is almost, but not quite, touching the tire. Rotate the tire. If the chalk makes any marks on your tire, it's out of round.

Horizontal: Basically the same as vertical, but brace your chalk on the shock or frame with the other end almost but not quite touching the tire. Rotate the tire. Any chalk on the sidewalls means your tire has bulges.

Hey, it's not very technical, but it's a fast cheap way to rule out out of round tires.

[Mac]

Thanks, all, once more - but I'm just not describing this right, as "vibration" keeps having the tire connotation for everyone.       In reality, I used highway speed as a description early on without really having a good around town reference since you constantly row the gears.  Let's try a little different description of the problem:

First off, it is entirely based on throttle use/RPM, and not a specific speed.  For instance, if I'm cruising at low RPM (not lugging it, but down low in the revs) in say 4th or 5th, then roll on to any degree, there is a definite and fairly major pulsing - much more than you would feel with a single.  The more throttle, the worse it is.  It's even there at the cruise itself, but at around town levels it can just be chalked up to a bit of a modified bike, albeit a little bit harsher than you'ld think.

Now, enter highway cruising at 60-70mph.  At that speed, the revs are higher than my normal in town usage.  So right away the pulsing is worse (thus the reason that I first noticed it more in this area).  Roll on at all, it increases.  And, actually, back down a bit, it also tends to increase somewhat initially - probably because of the effects of engine braking going on there.

As far as tires, I had some balance / roundness issues with my first set of Shinkos on the Piglet which led to uneven wear, cupping, tire vibration (again, very minimal, but noticeable enough).  And, Hyosilver, I read some of those posts and reviews as well and know what you're talking about there (which actually is one of the reasons that I would prefer alloys over spoked in general).  Tony has been around bikes all his life and agrees that it seems to be something not quite right as far as the engine setup.  If either of us had to theorize, timing would be our first choice.  (In fact, it reminds me very much of the type of running my old Dodge Challenger 318 had when the distributor was out 180 degrees!  It seemed somewhat OK until you actually did anything with the accelerator, and it was masked at idle and cruise by the pulse of the headers and mid-rise manifold with Holley 650 4-barrel  )

There are a few other things that concern me as well - but the above info is the most obvious sign and is always present hot or cold.

Hope that this clarifies it somewhat - right now, dealing with the problem is almost like when I had to try to track down the 6k RPM hesitation on Piglet (which we never did fix entirely - I just changed gearing and it wasn't as intrusive any longer).

Keep the thoughts coming, guys and gals - and while I'll check the tires out as well, I'm about 98% certain that this is a side effect of work done to make this a "butch" sounding bike...plugs and ignition wires are also kinda suspect right now, I would think.  And I just keep coming back to one of the cylinders having a valve train not quite the way it should be. 

[Hyosilver]

Okay, I think I've got it now. Basically the engine shakes at ALMOST any rpm, and gets worse the higher the rpm and is not speed dependent. If that's the case my hugely uneducated guess is you're quite right, it is not the tires. And it doesn't sound like the kind if thing I get with the piglet where I hit a certain rpm and there is a vibration that can be felt throughout bike from the floorboards to the grips, but disappears with either a slight increase or decrease of the throttle. It also is not speed dependent and I notice it more at slow speeds. It sets one light of my light bar vibrating.

Has your bike's motor had an overhaul in it's lifetime? I am absolutely no mechanic, and make no bones about it, but I agree with you, it sounds like there is something amiss in the engine. Either something wasn't reassembled properly if the engine has been apart or some parts are badly worn or misaligned. (crank, rods, valves, whatever else is in there?)

Do you think you might have to have at least a top end tear down to try to  get to the bottom of the problem? With all the clever folks here and of course your mechanic, I'm sure you'll get to the problem. Hang in there Mac!!

[Hyosilver]

Just a quick thought, I think you have shaft drive, no? Any thoughts about the possibility of a problem in the transmission?

[ACD_Bill]

I don't know if it was asked before but have you checked the motor mounts?

[Mac]

Just a quick thought, I think you have shaft drive, no? Any thoughts about the possibility of a problem in the transmission?

Thoughts?  Yes, I do have 'em...
(As surprising as some of you might find that!...  )
Yes, it is shaft drive, and I have considered the trans as being involved...in fact, the whine/chatter/"card in the bicycle spokes" whirr that I hear fairly often was suggested to be clutch basket noise, and is common on these (again, I don't have a frame of reference to suggest otherwise).  But I've leaned away from pure transmission issue due to the fact that the aural sensations and the physical feel are pretty much keeping with each other.  It really seems that as I ride the engine, the pulses hit me...and not the putting the engine through to the wheel.  (I hope that makes sense, as I really can't think of a good way to describe the sensation  )

I don't know if it was asked before but have you checked the motor mounts?

No, Bill, I haven't - and yes, that is something else that has been suggested over on the Volusia forums.  Should have included that as one of the things that I'm going to be looking into with the ignition wires and plugs.

Good job, both of you - you've hit upon possibilities that are more in the realm of where I think the problem exists.  I just don't see wheels/tires/suspension as being likely issues, but that really is where most of the answers given to me previously from all of the sources seemed to focus.  Glad that the updated description seems a bit more helpful.

(Of course, I'm back to my initial issue as I go through possible scenarios - I will have easily spent far more on this than if I had bought one of my other choices.  So I still don't see me having this bike for very long, even if it can eventually become a decent overall fit.  I just see many problems in my future... )

Once more, my thanks - and off into the breach!   

[Mac]

Okay, I think I've got it now. Basically the engine shakes at ALMOST any rpm, and gets worse the higher the rpm and is not speed dependent. If that's the case my hugely uneducated guess is you're quite right, it is not the tires. And it doesn't sound like the kind if thing I get with the piglet where I hit a certain rpm and there is a vibration that can be felt throughout bike from the floorboards to the grips, but disappears with either a slight increase or decrease of the throttle. It also is not speed dependent and I notice it more at slow speeds. It sets one light of my light bar vibrating.

Has your bike's motor had an overhaul in it's lifetime? I am absolutely no mechanic, and make no bones about it, but I agree with you, it sounds like there is something amiss in the engine. Either something wasn't reassembled properly if the engine has been apart or some parts are badly worn or misaligned. (crank, rods, valves, whatever else is in there?)

Do you think you might have to have at least a top end tear down to try to  get to the bottom of the problem? With all the clever folks here and of course your mechanic, I'm sure you'll get to the problem. Hang in there Mac!!

Sorry, Hyo - had missed this initial answer in dealing with your followup.  Yes, you now have it!!!...

(Engine Shake - that's definitely the better way to put it than Vibration....thank you!)

Since this bike has no known history (bought by Orion at auction), any or all of your thoughts are valid.  And, yes again, it might be necessary to tear apart the top end or other parts - which goes back to my point about cost.  Particularly since this "commuting" bike is probably never gonna get much more than the 35mpg that I now see other folks tend to get.  It's possible that I'll stretch it to 40mpg with a heck of a lot of $$$

As I think that I mentioned at one point earlier in the thread, this thing sets off car alarms at idle in a parking garage - it is very much a "boom, boom, boom" pulse that my neighbors have noticed when I start it up in the morning (and even gets my dogs barking!).  I didn't really think about it that much in the first couple of weeks since I had no frame of reference, but it has really become obvious as I use it more in my regular routine.  That "boom, boom, boom" exhaust note is pretty much translated to me as "shake, shake, shake" bike riding...problem is, I honestly don't think that it is just due to the exhaust baffling, and I don't want to go down that route to replace the exhaust with stock for $200-$300 unless I have no other possible cheaper things to try first.  And almost everyone I've talked with (and my gut, based on my mods to Piglet) tell me that the exhaust itself is probably not the culprit.  So I gotta figure out what is...

Suzi has approx 11K miles now.  That's all.  Less than half what Piglet had.  At this wear level, none of the major things really should be wrong in general.  So it's very hard to decide where to focus the analysis without someone far more knowledgeable than me saying "you know, it sounds like we need to look at "X"....which is what I'm trying to get to between my local friends and the boards.

Really appreciate the help, kids.  And I just might buy someone a REAL drink in a REAL bar someday when it's all decent!...

[GunnyJoe]

I'm still baffled by the poor gas mileage - you should be getting 40 or better. It must be the screwed up aftermarket mufflers causing the issue - never got less than 45 mpg on my 2005 S50, even when I first got it and the baffles had beem yanked out!