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Pic of my Legacy Posted by Moto_Michelle on 15 Aug 2008 in Members Rides Viewed 1051 times 315w X 240h 82422 bytes

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You will find as you work on bikes that all motorcycle parts ALMOST fit. -- Lmbrguy

[Icedog]

da** computers, I agree, when I tell a machine to do something I want it to do it.

[D.O.A.]

Actually I also feel I should come back and clarify here. 
about 90% of the trepidation I feel towards using "fly-by-wire" type controls is software related.  That airliner post is a perfect example.  If the plane has simply been wired to control surfaces based directly on input from the pilot, they would have been fine.  But no, instead, they put in "safety features."   Anytime an unintelligent computer system can over ride an intelligent, experienced pilot, who has access to more information than the software does.  That's a bad thing.   

The other 10% or my anxiety would be connection quality.  I am actually working right now on an "autopsy" if you will, on a stun gun for someone who had a need for it recently, and it did not work.  Taking it apart, everything looks fine.  But, I found a bad solder joint.  Resolder those wires, and it's jolt city.  My point there is, it looks FINE.  And probably worked a time or two for factory testing (If they did any)  But, a little too much shaking around disconnected the wires.   It's easy (If you take the time to look) to find mechanical defaults.  Not so much electrical ones.  Unless they're helpful enough to catch on fire.

[ACD_Bill]

da** computers, I agree, when I tell a machine to do something I want it to do it.

When I worked in LISP programming, I worked for years on the "Do what I want you to do, not what I tell you to do." program.

[sagedil]

Actually I also feel I should come back and clarify here. 
about 90% of the trepidation I feel towards using "fly-by-wire" type controls is software related.  That airliner post is a perfect example.  If the plane has simply been wired to control surfaces based directly on input from the pilot, they would have been fine.  But no, instead, they put in "safety features."   Anytime an unintelligent computer system can over ride an intelligent, experienced pilot, who has access to more information than the software does.  That's a bad thing.   

The other 10% or my anxiety would be connection quality.  I am actually working right now on an "autopsy" if you will, on a stun gun for someone who had a need for it recently, and it did not work.  Taking it apart, everything looks fine.  But, I found a bad solder joint.  Resolder those wires, and it's jolt city.  My point there is, it looks FINE.  And probably worked a time or two for factory testing (If they did any)  But, a little too much shaking around disconnected the wires.   It's easy (If you take the time to look) to find mechanical defaults.  Not so much electrical ones.  Unless they're helpful enough to catch on fire.

And all I am saying is have you driven a car with it yet?    Do, and you will see exactly why it is so magical.    I understand your theoretical design concerns about what might  *possibly* could happen.  Then again, a safe could fall on my head today to, but I don't make decisions about life based on such small possibilities.

Drive by wire cars have been out there for at least 8 years now.   Um...any reports of massive failures hurting people???   No.   And the fine control drive by wire gives you is remarkable.

[Watzup]

I agree DOA. Some of the experts are starting to suspect that Toyota's problems with sudden uncontrolled acceleration in some of its models are not due to bulky carpets or faulty mechanical throttle linkages, but to the "drive by wire" software and/or sensors.

I know electronic components rarely fail and most circuit problems are almost always the result of poor construction eg cold solder joints, but  I still don't want my bike's throttle or brakes to be controlled by software or electronic sensors.

I had a Ford Windstar with ABS braking on the front. After, admittedly many kilimeters the abs was kicking in at slow speeds just before stopping on non-slippery surfaces. The sensors were detecting wheel lockup where none existed and were deploying the abs. The sensors on both front wheels had failed, one after the other and replacement was about $600 each. Luckily it was happening at very slow speeds.

[Dragon]

Maybe when they work the bugs out of it. Till then, I'll wait.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/story/print?guid=E72019D3-3457-4706-B577-25A5BCCF50D8

From what I understand, attempting to shift a runaway vehicle into neutral ( the old fashioned way of stopping one ) has been locked out. Applying the brakes has also been changed to be ineffectual as well. And with the new push button ignitions, that takes several seconds of pressing the button to work also to turn off the ignition. Having worked on my own vehicles for decades has taught me about all the glitches a computer controlled car can have in the first place. So with four "maybes" factored in, I will pass.

[jjpfeifferjr]

sagedil -- does your car have an automatic or a manual transmission?  I've got a '07 Dakota pickup with a manual transmission, and fly-by-wire throttle.  Near as I can tell, it works to set the airflow based on my accelerator input independent of engine speed.  This works great, until I'm driving at a relatively low speed in a high gear.  I'm barely touching the pedal to maintain speed, but then want to speed up....  and absolutely nothing happens.  It turns out the engine was running at very nearly full throttle, and I had absolutely no indication that that was the situation until I needed some power.  Really disconcerting...

[D.O.A.]

And all I am saying is have you driven a car with it yet? 

Yup, helped build one remember?  (page one)       I like what you might call 'direct' drive by wire.  That's why I tried to clarify in the second post.   For example, the drive by wire in the truck we built used a set of relays and transistors to control throttle, same repeatable, exact throttle control you can get on these factory cars, but with this one key difference.  If the transistor fails, it fails open.  Car slows down.  Relay fails, it fails open.  Car slows down.  No software.  Granted PLC's controlled certain other aspects of the car, but anything considered "mandatory" we ran much simpler, non-computer dependent circuits.

I'm not really arguing against drive-by-wire per se, but drive-by-wire with software involved.  I must admit, I'm making the assumption that the bike would have a computer in there somewhere (And I know what happens when you make those, but I think it's a pretty safe one.)

And it's not something I'm "really" all that concerned about.  I'd still go take a spin on one of those bikes.  I'm just raised in the old school engineering mode.  Keep it simple, keep it built about 3 times stronger than it needs to be.  Etc. Etc.  Not like I avoid cars with computers or anything.  Drive one everyday 

[superduperdvd]

Like i said before,

To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer. 

[cbwoods]

I've always felt that a vehicle of any type was not a good place for a computer to be installed! I never considered myself to be a mechanic, but I do miss the good old days when I could drive my Duster to the local wrecking yard and pull a starter off of any other Mopar product to replace the one that was going bad in mine!

These days, thanks to the d*mned computer in my Caravan, I get the dome lights failing to work when I want them to, and the headlights and dash lights flashing and all the gages and wipers going nuts! My local Chrysler shop tells me to order a new controller module that costs about $1,000. But I can't find the thing on the internet to order it. On top of things, I have read that it's possible that the fault could be as simple as cold solder joints on a circuit card behind the gages. So even if I could order the $1,000 module, it might not even fix the problem. Chrysler quality has sure gond down the drain since the glory days of the muscle cars!

Oh, we were talking about motorcycles, weren't we?